Heart of Darkness: Bloodlust, Canonical Pangea and Books That Are Hard

We took nearly six months to get through a roughly one hundred-page book, because it's extremely dense, and Arrested Development is on instant Netflix? (plus, beer.) So we cliffnoted our way through (for the second time) and tried to give Conrad the respect he deserves. (Guy was writing masterpieces in his second language!) Discussed: the canon, violence in the media and Marlon Brando (obviously).

Emily: What have you been listening to lately?
I need something fresh but classic.
Prolls will return to Chicago II.
Meredith:  oh man
Nothing "new" really. Lots and lots of Sam Cooke.

There's a new Hot Chip
Serge Gainsbourg pandora station is the bomb.
Emily: Also i did my hair for this.
maybe "did" is too strong a word.
I'm afraid my hair is in an awkward riot grrrl stage.
also today I finally put it together why prostitute-chic is the norm in 2012 America, via reading articles about "the modern woman in the contemporary American dating/workplace landscape."
Apparently there are like no viable dudes, so you have to fight for them or something, and girls think that dudes want the "hottest girl" so they dress like porn stars the end.
Meredith:  that makes all-too perfect sense
like so simple
n gross
21st century amurica can't handle our infinite nature
Emily: Yesterday a few types of people that need to be removed from the planet were presented to me. Mostly people who listen to alt rock and count calories.
This is a strangely appropriate prelude to our discussion of "heart of darkness"
Meredith:  People going crazy?
Emily: Yeah, people with hearts made mostly of murderous rage
specifically
Although i guess Kurtz was mostly just insane
Readers, watch Apocalypse: Now if you want to know what happens in the book.
Meredith: Yes, don't read it
I feel like i should be encouraging literacy of all forms
ok
so
canon
cannon
canon
why is <3 of D in it
Emily:  lemme grab the book real quick
I think it answer to that question is on the back
Meredith:  Discussion topics: why is this included in "the best writing that shaped western culture?"
you weren't serious were you?
Emily: half serious
we should call this blog "chatting the blurbs"
ok so Heart of Darkness is a "literary voyage into the inner self"
Meredith:  I like the use of "voyage." way to go, back of book
Emily:  it calls it "chilling, disturbing and noteworthy"
or one of the most of the century
Meredith:  I could see it as disturbing and chilling
then noteworthy by proxy
If i were reading it at the time it was written
Emily:  I just keep thinking of Brando as chilling.

but also as my boyfriend:

Meredith:  yes
but this kind of tapped into the unknown, and our fear and projection of it.
liiiike there's fuckin' savages out there, man.
Emily: I spose Africa was basically another planet when Conrad published this, in 1902.
So another theme, "corruptibility of humankind"-- so says the back of my edition.
Which is actually why I did actually like this book.
For lack of a better word, it's dark.
Its thesis is that humanity is not a morally pure species, and that humans are ready to come unhinged at any given moment.
Meredith: yes
"unhinged"
and what causes this
what caused it in Kurtz?
Emily: So apparently "Conrad intentionally made Heart of Darkness hard to read. He wanted the language of his novella to make the reader feel like they were fighting through the jungle, just like Marlow fought through the jungle in search of Kurtz." -- cliffsnotes
which makes me like the book more and also makes me question my own literacy.
Meredith:  WOWWWW!!!!!!!1
WOWOWOW
HAHAHA
omg that's awesome
I definitely felt like a crazy
Emily: I kinda felt like a fourth grader.
Meredith:  that's really interesting
I love a good intentional structure.
Emily:  right! thats pretty postmodern of him
Using the media as the message, etc.
Meredith:  Do you think he just made that up after the fact though...
jk!!
Emily:  right?! when everyone was like, umm actually this is really hard to get through.
Meredith:  I just read that it explores 3 types of darknesses
1. the darkness of the congo; the unknown and the literal darkness of unexplored territory
Emily:  Types Of Darknesses: our band.
Meredith:  2. the darkness of the treatment of the europeans toward the natives
and the darkness possible within us
was 3
to which i say

Emily:  what about the kind of darkness thats on the edge of town?

Emily: so basically Conrad was a total badass, because he was like IMPERIALISM IS MORALLY BANKRUPT like 100 yrs before that mode of thoughtwas embraced by crustpunks and subscribers of The Nation. I love realizing that artists that we in the modern world think are old and boring were actually the punks of their day, like the Impressionists. And now Conrad!
Meredith:  I can't explain all the feelings Conrad made me feel.
also i returned the book because i owe around $23.
BUT so i'm on the bus reading.
and it's this action scene that i had had to read about 4 times over because i felt like i forgot how to read
but it was a crowded bus and i was sitting next to someone eating a burger that smelled realll good
and, for the sake of the story, i will say that he was (and still is) black
and i'm reading about how they went to this strange land and were basically tying up people and beating them
and i see the word "nigger" a couple times
and shut the book kinda quickly
was definitely being over sensitive
but
it felt funny
because we are clearly living in a post-racial society
Emily: which leads us to:
the Canon.
IS IT STILL VALUABLE?
Meredith: i picture The Canon as a chart
a line graph
so on your x axis (horizontal?) there's time
On the vertical line at the bottom is old white dudes
up to bell hooks up top
so over time, are we still adding to the same canon? or is there a new canon?
because we've gone in a whole new direction
are people really still saying that their favorite book is Catcher In The Rye, STILL
Emily: welllllllll, it is a great book
Meredith: but it's shifted so much, the canon
like pangea
FUCK YEAH
canonical pangea
metal band
Emily: kinda feel like if there is a "new canon" its still rife with all the same old conventions-- imperialism, glorified misogyny, etc etc. so if we're talking "modern classics" in the sense that they are illustrative of a specific time in our culture, something like American Psycho would be part of it.
which, are you fucking kidding me.
Bret Easton Ellis is the yuppie posterboy.
hes not necessarily trying to tear anything down.
Meredith:  it seems like he's kind of this pseudo-punk icon for unsafe Wall Street types to read while vacationing in the hamptons
but what did he do with literary norms?
he did some stream of consciousness writing which maybe introduced some people to something new?
Emily: I guess I just think he's a joke because American Psycho is so pathologically misogynist its almost amusing
Meredith: it's sick
is he participating in it or questioning it?
eh
don't answer that
Emily: It's the same with mob movies.
or war movies.
Most of them mean to act as caveats against the violence of those settings, but the bloodlusty audience gets lost in the glamour and wishes they could take a baseball bat to a head at any given moment, a la Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.
People should at least admit that they get off on it.
Meredith:  no that makes total sense
messages get lost on audiences all the time, so one that's hidden pretty well in a glorified character is almost guaranteed to be lost
Emily: exactly. you could even look to the movie adaptation of the book we're discussing!
Meredith:  let's!

Emily: kid firing rounds to the tune of "Satisfaction"
VIOLENCE=SEX etc
from the comments: "This is an anti war film...but everytime I watch it, it motivates me to participate in war! God damn you hollywood! You have brain washed me into a deep desire to conduct war. I lust after it. I have always craved the glory of war! Deep down, I feel a strong love for mankind...yet at the same time I want to destroy it. Thank you sir! Fuck you and I love you!"
how convenient. Also, that has to be a joke.
Meredith: Obvi franky ford coppola saw the anti-imperialist message in Conrad's novella
god, artistic intentions are a rickety ole ladder
it's funny that scene with "Satisfaction" gives me goosebumps while it makes some people want to "shoot shit"
Emily: I feel like the whole "violence in the media is really unhealthy" is SUCH an unpopular argument, I get my ass handed to me all the time.
like, JUST BECAUSE I WATCH TORTURE PORN DOESN'T MEAN I WANT TO TORTURE PEOPLE
which, i guess.
but, really?
Meredith:  I know I know
it's how I learned the word "desensitized"
Emily: Whether you want to inflict violence on someone else or not, it's still going to numb the shock of seeing 33 AFGHANI CHILDREN SLAUGHTERED on the front page, until it's something that we're used to and accepting of, and not able to connect with what that actually means and is.
Meredith:  ugh yes
So that's kinda weird, like, how much of what is important in the canon is lost on us
Emily: ie the anti-imperialst message of Heart Of Darkness?
Meredith:  Precisely
Emily: yes, very true. perhaps every message that's difficult to comprehend is bound to be hidden under layers of whatever hollywood needs to wrap it in to make it a sellable product to idiots who will eat it up.
Conrad thought imperialsm was wrong and framed a book around that view. Coppola turned that book into a movie about an imperial war and ostensibly about why it was bad.
People are excited about violence after watching it. 
Meredith:  Do you think a true auteur is one that doesn't try to appeal to the masses?
Emily:  yes.


Emily: what have you been reading?
Meredith: Just Kids
And the sci-fi edition of the New Yorker
how about you?
Emily: I've been reading Cherry by Mary Karr and Blue Highways by William Least Heat Moon.
which are both great
Meredith: Are they in the canon?!
Emily: Maybe subcategories of the canon!
like, Other canon
Female memoir and Native post-On-The-Road American travel-core
Meredith: can there be only one canon though, you know?!
Emily:  hmmm, yes.
I think you're right
!
Meredith:  But it's like, how dare we put American Psycho and Their Eyes Were Watching God in the same canon?
Emily:  good point.
"plurality of perspectives in American letters" or some sht
Meredith:  I get that, yeah. maybe I'm just rebelling/don't get why we have a canon still
Emily: well, "postmodernism" was/is? a dismantling of the canon.
so I guess we don't?
Meredith:  how so? because won't we just end up considering Paul Auster or Thomas Pynchon part of the canon
It shaped our cultural conscience.
Emily: I think by definition, the Canon is basically prewar white dudes. Your Hemingways and Faulkners. After WWII, the floodgates opened and sort of replaced or refuted everything that came before.
Suddenly, women and non-europeans had access to that club and kind of just made the originals look stale.
Meredith:  I like thinking of it as Pangea.
It just seems like it would be crazy to have it remain the same.


Next Time on Chattin The Classix!: You think you know Sci Fi? Well, we don't! Join us on an adventure into the future, the year 1992, where we'll explore the dark heart of the android and the electric sheep of which they may or may not dream.

while you're waiting....

Hey yalls,
Merez and I have been having a really intense conversation about Conrad for about three months, and while our conversation is being edited in China, you can read this thing I wrote about books that ruined my life. You know, like if you want.

<3 <3 chat soon, promise!

The Great Gatsby: Part Two

About the work which was initally dismissed by the critics and ignored by the public but would eventually immortalize him, Fitzgerald proclaimed "I want to write something new, something extraordinary and beautiful and simple and intricately patterned."
In this edition of Chatting The Classics, we decide whether he achieved his goal, as well as explore Fitz's struggles with his own genius, the ameritween dream, and how google advertised this to us whilst chatting about The Greatest Great American Novel: "EMO DATE SITE EMO GOTH SITE EMO PUNK SHOP".

But first some sample lines:

"I wasn't actually in love, but I felt a sort of tender curiosity."

"She appeared at his side like an angry diamond and hissed."

"There are only the pursued, the pursuing, the busy and the tired."

"I felt a haunting loneliness sometimes, and felt it in others--young clerks in the dusk, wasting the most poignant moments of night and life."


just sayin.


Redford and Farrow as Gatz and Daisy gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh

Faults, Females and Franzia

Emily: So even though F thought the novel was brilliant, one area that he acknowledged as weak was his development/ lack thereof of Daisy.
He wrote to critic Edmund Wilson:
“the worst fault in it, I think is a BIG FAULT:
I gave no account (and had no feeling about or knowledge of) the emotional relationship between Gatsby or Daisy from the time of the reunion to the catastrophe [the car accident that kills Daisy’s husband’s mistress].”
Meredith: Interesting. I definitely felt that. That's the downside of having the 1st person limited narrator--they become the most flushed out and there's a necessary balance between telling a story and having the narrator be believable. So other character development might suffer as a result.
Emily: This essay that I read by Sarah Beebe Fryer* says that F was as confused by Daisy as Nick was, and then she drops this on us:
“Nick's keen observations of her behavior demonstrate not that she is unable to feel and express strong emotions, but that she deliberately avoids them, because she recognizes the pain they can entail.”
which, WHOA
DONT WE ALL
Meredith: OH
MY
GOD
that's it.
Emily: also: "Daisy clings-- unsuccessfully-- to a gay, superficial ‘careless’ world in an effort to protect herself from what are for her the terrifying dangers inherent in caring.”
hello, human condition.
Also, he worried about his lack of development of her and focus more on Tom and Gatsby would make the book more of a "mans book" and hurt its popularity amongst the womens.
Meredith: The lack of emotional detail of Daisy and Gatz around the accident was interesting.
Emily: I like how Fitzgerald does that, and conceals some detail from the reader, rather than shoving it in the reader's face.
It's more intriguing.
I love Nick’s judgments of Gastby et al, because they're so severe in a way.
But don’t necessarily dictate how we should feel about the characters, and really say more about Nick himself.
He says toward the end he never trusted Gatsby.
I did.
also I’m drinking Franzia.

*Donaldson, Scott. Critical Essays on F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby. Boston, MA: G.K. Hall, 1984


Did Chris Carrabba Like English Class?

Emily: so I just started reading Nothing Feels Good: Punk Rock, Teenagers and Emo by Andy Greenwald of Spin.
it’s completely ridiculous but I can't put it down.
So he begins with a scene of a Dashboard show.
which, BEEN THERE.
Meredith: l0ser.
Emily: um, plz it was transcendent.
At the end of the intro, Greenwald says:
"Emo is seeking a tangible connection out of intangible things.... emo is Fitzgerald’s eternal green light and emo is Salinger hoping beyond hope that Jane Gallagher will keep all her things safely in the back row..."
!!!!!!!!!!
Meredith: guhhhh
Emily: It just grabbed my attention because I picked up this book from the "hot picks" shelf at the public library because it appealed to my tween nostalgia, and it JUST HAPPENS TO MENTION Fitz, Gats and the Green Light. And that seems to be the true, immortal legacy of this book-- that it's code for connecting oneself with the Grand Legacy Of American Literature, that The Great Gatsby in itself means The Great American Novel.
Meredith: didn't you say that when we were reading Franny and Zooey?
that Salinger/Franny and Zooey were totally emo
Is it that writing style that's totes emo? or the men who author them?
Emily: Well in that case, Salinger and his characters are so angsty that you can't help but be reminded of emoness.
But in Greenwald's analogy, I think he's using the Green Light of Gatsby to represent a certain longing
that defines all great art?
not sure
that may be overreaching
also emo is not great art
but, LOVE U CHRIS





Meredith: lolz
Emily: So Greenwald says that emo music is a form of "connection" in the way that the green light is Gatsby's connection to Daisy from across the bay of East Egg.
It leads him to what he wants, but can’t quite reach, in the same way emo is to teens to what they want, whether it’s for society to "understand them" or their crush to like them back or whatever it is that tweens spend their days journaling about.
Meredith: so wanting to shop at PacSun and for the cute boy in school to reciprocate the crush is like the ameritween dream.
Emily: yess!
Meredith: does T.J. Eckleburg understand the dream?
his stature almost seems mocking.
Emily: Money is God
Upward mobility is God
Meredith: dang

The Anxiety of Influence

Emily: so, this is the most rated English-language book of the 20th century.
do you think it deserves it?
Meredith: well
it's the Citizen Kane thing


No Spoilers!
where you look at what were the ideologies of the time, what the author was doing during that time, what other authors were not doing during that time. it explains the success.
No, I don't think it was the best book ever.
but I do think it was incredibly valuable and changed the way we view novels.
Citizen Kane makes me sleepy. but it's beautiful and brought artistic cinema to the mainstream.
do you think it's deserving of that title?
Emily: first of all, that trailer is spooky as fuck.
ORSON WELLES' VOICE
Well, I can see why Gatsby does have that title.
it’s sort of like that buzzband that blows up and wins a Grammy
like the Arcade Fire



Safe enough for the grammys, uproariously boring.

They knew the whole time that they were doing something different than everyone else
and then they win a Grammy
and redefine everything afterwards
for a minute, at least.
I do think that his style was incredible strong
The intention in his phrasing is so subtle but powerful enough to move a train
[see: lines from intro of this post]
Meredith: hah absolutely
Emily: that’s what I loved about it
the restraint
but in a much different form than Hemingway
Comparing the two, Hemingway was intentionally holding back in a really loud way, but F was whispering, and whoever wants to listen closely will have their mind blown
Meredith: mmmmmhm
there was a modesty about his writing, for sure
but then you run into passages [see above above]/the whole book that really blow you away
Emily: right!
like: "He was balancing himself on the dashboard of his car with that resourcefulness of movement that is so peculiarly American-- that comes, I suppose, with the absence of lifting work or rigid sitting in youth, and even more, with the formless grace of our nervous, sporadic games."
!!!!!!!!!!!!! what?!?!?! amazing.
It seems quiet, but when added up you really step inside his genius.
Anyone can write a few great lines.
No one can compile them into a successful composite
except this guy.
I like how the "modernists" weren’t afraid to be beautiful and epic.
Whereas the postmodernists don’t want either.
possibly because there's no truth to tell
and no beauty to tell it with.
BLAH BLAH "I studied liberal arts and now I'm sad about things kind of!!!™"
But really, I can't think of a specific Delillo passage I recopied or really asserted itself in a poetic way
Meredith: yeah absolutely.
Actually, White Noise was the last book I finished before this one, funnily enough.
and I remember smiling/lol-ing at certain points but nothing made me doggy ear the page due to beautiful writing.
only an expected mind fuck here and there
or like a "bwhoa!"
Emily: I miss books that weren't secretly about the apocalypse
Like this one.
Meredith: Yes. Gatsby is a simple-ish story with a greater meaning, but that meaning was not The End.
Emily: Does our obsession with the apocalypse distract us from love?
and other human things?
i.e. our collective cultural obsession
Meredith: is love a distraction?
Emily: no, that’s the whole point
what else are we here for?
Meredith: why weren't people in the 1920s writing about the apocalypse?
Emily: because they were drinking moonshine
and having a time
women were sort of liberated
and being scandalous, showing their calves, and the dudes were distracted
because of all those calves
and then the "stock market crashed"
probably due to the high volume of exposed calves
Meredith: paranoia wouldn't be invented for another 50 years
Emily: but people still believed in things
and then we went to war to make money for the country
millions of people were murdered thanks to the mechanism of progress
and then no one believed in anything ever again
the end.



yup.

BUT WAIT...

Meredith: um also, the cover was painted by an artist and was commissioned prior to the book being finished
Emily: that’s an awesome cover
Animal Collective's "Bluish" vid was sort of based on it!

Strawberry Time Lapse from animal collective on Vimeo

Next Time on Chatting The Classics: The Doors Meet the African Jungle! More Hemingway! British stuff! And everything else you never read in high school because you were too busy writing Thursday lyrics in your spiral notebook.

The Great Gatsby: PART ONE

Dear friends and stalkers,
Welcome back to 2Literate2Work. We'd like to apologize for the long recess between chats-- we were both busy turning 26, Meredith moved across the country and Emily paid off almost all of her library overdue fees. But we never did finish Jane Eyre (srry CharBro).

For this chat, we took to The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald, or that book that everyone lists as their favorite because they were required to purchase it in high school, it's about money and they don't know how to read. It's always seemed a little pale but apparently Hunter S. Thompson re-typed the manuscript as a youth so he could feel what it was like to type a masterpiece. We figured we should give it another shot.

For our readers who are illiterate or homeschooled, Gatsby is considered by many to be the defining American novel of the 20th century. It's narrated by Nick Carraway, who finds himself entangled in the of world Jay Gatsby, the mysterious millionaire next door. Affairs, automobiles and moonshine are the other characters. Gatsby was written in 1926, "The Height of American Excess" (tm) version 1.0, right before the stock market crash and ensuing Great Depression. =PARTY TIME.



Love, Money and Death in Modern America

Meredith: sitting at a cafe, getting ready and to chat and drinking a coffee and taking notes, was listening to some ella fitzgerald and thelonious monk to set the mood
but they're playing KE$HA "we r who we r" in this shop, and that fits so much better
spot on
re: moral decay
Emily: wait, are you drinking?
should i be drinking?
Meredith: ugh no. just coffee.
WWFScottD?
Emily: G&T!
but I'm only drinking tea.

so THIS BOOK. Love! money! the American dream!
Meredith: anddd how!
Emily: had you read it before?
Meredith: nope. you?
Emily: I was supposed to for my junior year English class, but didn't
my misspent youth, etc.
But I remember my teacher, Mr. H. Wayne Curtis, telling us that T. J. Eckleberg, the big glasses that served as an advertisement and watched over East Egg was a representation for god. Metaphor for decreased prominence of god in the modern world? CHECK
Meredith: yeaaah wow
So Nick moves from the mid-west to New York to work in "bonds" and other boring things in the city
Emily: right, he's an outsider to the east, as are all the main characters
I read it as sort of a cautionary tale of the new American mobility of the twentieth century.
For the first time, you didn't have to risk your life in a covered wagon to go east or west
And New York is where the most cherished American commodity was: money
Meredith: yes
Emily: what did you think of the specific characters?
Meredith: well I thought the great Gatsby would be "greater" or i guess i didn't know in what sense he was great. i certainly wasn't expecting someone so fallible.
Emily: yes! but that's him as the representation of the American dream: he ascended from nowhere to become this titan.
Meredith: so clearly his money was his greatness in many senses. it was really sad at the end that no one showed up to his funeral.
(spoiler alert, yadda yadda yadda)
Emily: that’s when i almost cried! In public!
Meredith: was it because people were "busy" that they didn’t go to his funeral or because they didn't want to risk getting in trouble, if they were bootleggers?
Emily: it's the contrast between old and new money. All the people at his parties were old money and the ones who really knew him acquired their money in unsavory ways, and couldn’t be associated with him. Hence, his empty funeral.



I also thought Fitzgerald was attempting to point out the frivolity of the upper classes, in that sense
Meredith: so if the American dream was to have lots of money and live lavishly, why didn't Daisy leave Tom for Gatsby?
Too much of a hassle?
Emily: ah, ok so this was also hearbreaking and earthshattering: Daisy really loved them both. She gave up Gastby, who she loved more, for the security of Tom.
Meredith: did she love Tom?
Emily: in a certain way. she can't truthfully tell Gatsby she never did.
it's the DECEIT OF THE HUMAN HEART!
which is why this book is so huge
it tackles the nature of human love, money and modern america all at the same time
in less than 200 pages
Meredith: myessss so good
Emily: so Tom Buchanan
Meredith: yeah wtf Tom
Emily: he reminds me of every conservative I’ve ever met
Meredith: hahah yeah. just kind of a hypocritical jerk
total square
doesn't like "art"
Emily: yeah, super dominant authoritarian personality. and racist.
Fitzgerald really explores a lot of different personality archetypes.
Tom, the "brute" as Daisy calls him
Nick is the sane, thoughtful one
and Gatsby is a hyper-driven mystery
And Daisy and Jordan-- Daisy is a pretty fool, and Jordan is a little tougher and more jaded.
I do like how he writes the women. They felt real to me.
Meredith: me tooooo!
Emily: good work, F.!
Meredith: his writing made me melt toward the end.
Some of the most beautiful prose ever.
like this: "it was dawn now on Long Island and we went about opening the rest of the windows downstairs, filling the house with grey turning, gold turning light. The shadow of a tree fell abruptly across the dew and ghostly birds began to sing among the blue leaves. There was a s low pleasant movement in the air, scarcely a wind, promising a cool lovely day."
HOW'D HE DO THAT
There’s also a lot of talk of movement, it seems like things are constantly moving, which speaks to what you were talking about the new modern mobility
Alsoooo, a lot of "east and west" talk
And he was among the expats to move east across the Atlantic to France
Emily: with Hway and stuff! they were friends!




Hway and Fitz in Paris


It seems like his prose exists somewhere in the middle of the hypermodern (for the time) of Hemingway and the more descriptive Victorian style, which is ALSO what the book was about! Transition.
Meredith: i kept being surprised that this man writing in the 1920s was writing with emotion.
it was great!
hemmy trained me well
Emily: yes, seriously. It seems like a simple book but it's a machine.
And it went unrecognized in his lifetime!
Meredith: right. Well it's super autobiographical, which, show me a book that isn't. But this one very much so.
Emily: true! Zelda[Fitzgerald’s wife] almost didn't marry F. because he didn't have money!
And she was a southern debutante! JUST LIKE GATS AND DAISY



F. and Zelda, 1921

Meredith: also, it might be my birthday being right around the corner, but the passage where Nick Carraway talks about his birthday. There was lots of drama going on. And he just suddenly remembered. Which I thought was really sad.
And then: "thirty-the promise of a decade of loneliness, a thinning list of single men to know, a thinning brief-case of enthusiasm, thinning hair..." f. scott f. was 29 when this book was published!
Emily: UGH
yes
I hope I forget about this book before I turn 30.
Meredith: i found myself feeling so sorry for him.
Emily: I love the scene where he and Jordan break up over the phone.
"I don’t know who hung up with a sharp click but I knew I didn’t care."
it’s so brutal.
Meredith: yes
Emily: ALSO
there is some dialogue in here that killed me
when Daisy says to Gatz "you look so cool. you always look so cool." And Nick describes that as Daisy telling him she loves him in front of a room full of people, including her husband.
I was like GAHHHHHHHHHH
those lines are quiet but so powerful.
Each character has a really distinct voice.
Meredith: Also "angry, and half in love with her, and tremendously sorry, I turned away."
Emily: yesss! Who doesn’t live in that space 24 hrs a day.
Meredith: for reals, love that shit.
I really didn't know the story when I was starting it. And to be honest felt myself dipping into boredom. But definitely redeemed itself and it might have just been where I was.
But it was funny-- you texted me "i'm at the good part"
and right when i got there, i knew what you were talking about.
Emily: yes! Toward the end when Daisy and Gatsby are sort of getting together but you know it doesn't end well.
speaking of
this line KILLED ME: “they had never been closer in their month of love nor communicated more profoundly one with another, than when she brushed silent lips against his coat's shoulder or when he touched the end of her fingers, gently, as though she were asleep.”
Meredith: I
KNOW
RIGHT
jesus
talk about melting
Emily: I was like uhh, yeah, thats everything, ever, right there.
Then the flip side, when Gatsby goes back to to Daisy's in Louisville after he gets back from the war, and she's already married tom:
“but it was going by too fast now for his blurred eyes and he knew that he had lost that part of it, the freshest and the best, forever.”
GUUUHA it so perfectly captures the feeling of having had everything and losing it, and in that moment the life and fulfillment you thought you would have disappear forever. The end of youth.
Meredith: I have such a crush on F. Scott Fitzgerald.
Emily: he is crushable.
Can the modern world even make someone like this?
No one is sincere or believes in lips brushing collars anymore.


The Drunk and The Careless

Meredith: Woody Allen just made this film, Midnight in Paris
where he kind of reconstructs the feeling of the 20s and the world that F. Scott conveyed
and Owen Wilson’s character desperately wants to live in the 20s, in Paris, with Hemingway and Fitz-g, and Gertrude stein, etc.
and there are characters playing f. Scott and Zelda and Zelda is a drunk, but actually kind of charming. and F. Scott is such a real guy. and Hemingway is the best.
mixed reviews on the film, but the FEEEEELING was nice
also Adrian Brody plays Salvador Dali. Ooof.

Emily: !@!!!!!1 me: ok, I’ll have to see it.
yeah, Fitz was a drunk but apparently didn’t drink and write.
or edit
Meredith: it's interesting, the edition I got from the Seattle Public Library, Ballard location, is the 75th anniversary edition (wow!) and it spoke about how he wasn't a strong speller and edited SO MANY drafts.
Emily: back in the age of typewriters!
Meredith: this one said it restored it kind of close to the original
And they restored thousands of commas or something
Because those things are no decorations
But yeah, I can imagine him going back and forth between leaving and omitting a comma. It can totally change a sentence, as we great writers know.
So many dogs with rain coats on right now, btw
Emily: my edition said that he had a “pitch perfect sense of the English language,” which I think definitely comes through.
comma misuse is enraging.
Meredith: yesss, that phrase is really incredible, and was certainly proven true.
what did you think of nick as narrator?
Emily: I liked him. He’s understated but reliable, and he has his own personality.
I like his contempt for everything in East Egg by the end.
Meredith: I liked him too. very sincere
He says "I am one of the few honest people I know."
Emily: yes, judgmental but also knows his own flaws.
So towards the end of the book, Nick decides Tom, Daisy and everyone of their class are "careless" and I think that’s an interesting word to use.
it seems simple and almost weak but when you think about it, it’s pretty cutting.
it’s close to selfish, it almost seems to mean lazily so.
not even selfish for a reason, just completely disregarding of anyone else at all.
because they can afford to be.
Meredith: which, is that exemplified in the accident, when Daisy kills Myrtle, the woman Tom’s having an affair with while driving Gatsby’s car?
Emily: yes, totally. and the affairs themselves, and Gatsby’s death, when Myrtle’s husband kills Gatsby-- Daisy and Tom just leave town.
Meredith: the lack of any type of emotion except from Tom seemed careless to me, too.
Emily: they've purchased immunity from the norms or courtesies of human interaction.
they don't have to abide by them.
which is why nick judges and dislikes them.
Meredith: right. he's a humble mid-westerner.
just like F. Scott F.!
Nick seemed so reluctant to go east at the beginning of the book
like he was doing just because that's what he's "supposed to do"
go to college, get job, meet wife, etc.
which doesn't sound too different from 2k11
except Yale probably cost a couple hundo more
I downed an americano at the last cafe I was at because they didn't have wifi! doh
so now I’m at vegan bakery and it smells weird and spicy
Emily: where are you, Kuwait? who doesn’t have wifi?
Meredith: srsly.

Emily: Fitz knew he was destined for greatness with this book, BUT NO ONE ELSE DID!
one of my favorite things about F. is that he knew he was a genius
he really pushed this one through on his faith in it
Meredith: did he feel like that with all his work? or was it just this one that he thought "that's gonna be a good one"?
Emily: he said: "The author would like to say that never before did one try to keep his artistic conscience as pure as during the ten months put into doing it... what I cut out both physically and emotionally would make another novel.”
and, the first printing was only 5,000!
and the obits barely mentioned it when he died!
and the NYT said "he never grew up"!!!!!!!!!1111111
Meredith: how old was he when he died? and was it from 2 much booze?
Emily: He was 44. And I think so... all the best ones go that way. BUT, he thought it should become a favorite of "classrooms, profs, lovers of English prose."
AND IT DID!
Meredith: YES IT DID
I read that he was in Italy when it was in the publishing process
so he wasn't right there through it all which I can imagine was stressful. he should have just skyped
Emily: I am lisnin to Justice's new album right now in honor of F's Parisian expat days



Meredith: ah tres bien! j'adore les artists francais
Emily: si si!
have you seen the Gatsby movie?!
w Redford?!?!?!?!
and Mia Farrow?



The greatest love story of our time!!!!
Meredith: noooo!
Emily
you'll never believe this
I just went to look it up
they're making a 2012 version, in production now
this is like that time we read jane eyre (hyperlink to ourselves)
Emily: srsly@!!!!!!!
Meredith: leo diCappiez!
Emily: Hollywood is cesspool of mediocrity and needs to Hunter S. Thompson itself
Meredith: was HST gun to the head?
Emily: yeah
Speaking of death:
F's grave is inscribed with THE FINAL LINE FROM GATSBY: "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."
Meredith: jeeSUS
Emily: that is pretty heavy
Meredith: IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL
Emily: "epic" in the most-non fratty use of the word possible
Meredith: legit.

Next: Is Daisy a fully realized character? Is Nick a judgemental douche? How can we talk about Dashboard Confessional in conjunction with the text? AND MORE

JANE EYRE: PART ONE

This month on Chattin Teh Classix: Jane Eyre! Self-realization, spookiness and romance abound in this 1847 work by Charlotte Bronte, considered to be ahead of its time in the portrayal of its female lead as an all-around badass.

Meredith: I’ll use this time to tell our readers we are half-way through with Jane Eyre.

Srry.

We’re busy women

/keep falling asleep

Emily: ok so you know who GETS IT?

Meredith: please tell me who I think you're going to tell me

Emily: JANE EYRE

Meredith: bammmm

yes

Emily: and Andy Millman from Extras.

Meredith: HAHAHAHHAAH

Just want to say that I would have Stephen Merchant's goofy babies any day.

Emily: I’m sensing a theme.

Meredith: ugh shit

They ain't even Jewish.

Just straight up nerdy.

Okay anyway. There’s also religion in Jane Eyre.

Emily: Yes there is.

Meredith: Not sure how I made it 25 years without having read other Victorian novels written by great ladies. But this is number 1.

Though I read some gothic kinda stuff which trailed behind the “Romance period,” and there's definitely influence.

Emily: Yes. I agree. Even though I was initially kind of bored to tears because I am ruined by teh internet, I was consistently amazed at the quality of the writing itself and the story.

And Jane.

Meredith: Yesss.

Emily: I can't think of a more impressive heroine, even in modern fiction.

She just doesn't give a fuck about what anyone else wants her to do.

Meredith: She seemed hard and cold to me for a little bit but then I realized she was treated like shit for her formative years and had to be like that!

Locked in the red room with a ghost!? That’s fucked up.

Emily: Totally. And I LOVE how because of that past, she then unearths her own viewpoint, interests, sense of self, etc. In the words of Thoreau, “know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it and gnaw it still,” and in the words of contemporary Swedish pop star Robyn, “don’t fucking tell me what to do.” I’m guessing that must have been somewhat radical for the time.

Meredith: absolutely!

Emily: What 90s singer songwriter do you think is Jane's closest analogue?

Meredith: Alanis? Without the bitter ex-lover bit.

Emily: That’s a good one… Alanis keeps it real, can be sweet but has an edge.

Meredith: I’ve actually been almost frustrated that she's been sitting in corners for this whole "party" at Thornfield. Also, they put on plays for fun. How cool is that??

Emily: I know! We should start doing that. I used to do that with my friends when we were little. It was awesome.

Meredith: Yes!!!

Emily: PBR gets in the way.

Meredith: /makes it better. I’m sure the rich people are drinking brandy snifters or sommmmething.

Emily: True. So, I think Jane Eyre has something of a coming of age element to it, and I was talking about it with a friend. He says that he thinks girls have better coming of age stories than guys, because he feels that the males in classic coming of age fiction are never satisfied, and that they're always searching for something else.

Meredith: That’s really interesting. They seem to be more about the adventure too, than the actual 'coming of age.’

Emily: I think this whole male/female fiction narrative disparity is due to the false dichotomy of gender in which we exist/ that informs our life trajectories, which enables men toward transcendence and women for imminence.

Meredith: Whoa girl. more more more.

Emily: In most art throughout history, women are portrayed as primarily oriented toward catching a “good man” and this is the struggle that mainly defines them. Meanwhile, men are able to explore and then define the nature of human existence.

Which creates a narrative in which men are able to transcend the confines of the human condition or die tryin', and women are only looking for a dude to complete them, at which point the story ends happily ever after.

Which is why I LOVE Jane.

Here’s a great quote that really runs counter to that entire paradigm:

"It is in vain to say human beings ought to be satisfied with tranquility: they must have action; and they will make it if they cannot find it. Millions are condemned to a stiller doom than mine, and millions are in silent revolt against their lot. Nobody knows how many rebellions besides political rebellions ferment in the masses of life which people earth. women are supposed to be very calm generally: but women feel just as men feel... they suffer from too rigid a constraint... precisely as men would suffer; and it is narrow minded in their more privileged fellow-creatures to say that they ought to confine themselves to making puddings and knitting stockings. It is thoughtless to condemn them, or laugh at them if they seek to do more than custom has pronounced necessary for their sex."

So there’s a revolution in a paragraph.

Meredith: Gah that's beautiful.

What part is that?

Emily: When she first gets to Thornfield.

Charlotte Bronte’s just looking around and being like, What the fuck, 19th century dudes.

Y’all r dumb.

Meredith: Absolutely. And for a woman to write that in mid-1800s must have been quite a controversy.

But also: since we're halfway through and I don't know how it ends, I almost don't want it to end because I’m nervous about Jane loosing her edge to get with Mr. Rochester.

I have faith in Charlotte that she's developed this great character

Emily: LOSING MY EDGE- Jane Eyre feat LCD SNDSTM

Charlotte will not let us down.

Meredith: Ok.

Emily: So I first read this book for summer reading before 10th grade.

Meredith: ah ok

Emily: And I really liked it.

And I kind of feel myself dorking out all over it like I'm in braces again.

And cheering for Jane. And just thinking, DO IT GRRRRLLLL!

Meredith: I really wish I had had this as a tool to help me develop into a lovely young lady.

I probably wouldn't swear as much.

Emily: Jane would approve of you! She would encourage you to take up embroidery.

Or something.

Meredith: hahaha

I didn't realize you'd read it before. What did you think of it when you were younger?

Emily: I remember just really liking Jane’s character. Maybe I wasn’t conscious yet of how rare a decent female in literature/film/teh media is.

I was young and unjaded.

Just bought my first j. crew bikini.

Meredith: fulllll circle

Emily: Yup. But I definitely liked how Jane was her own person and wasn’t trying to change 4 teh boys.

Meredith: Have you read Wuthering Heights?

Emily: No!

Meredith: I kind of want to just so I can know what Kate Bush is talking about

But I fear I might never know what Kate Bush is talking about.

Emily: So I found this quote I never would have noticed the first time around as a tween:

"it is a very strange sensation to inexperienced youth to feel itself quite alone in the world, cut adrift from every connection, uncertain whether the port to which it is bound can be reached, and prevented by many impediments from returning to that it is quitted."

Pretty effective imagery to represent the end of childhood.

But I liked the metaphor of being cut adrift and unable to go back, because I feel like I’ve been in that scenario about 80 times since reading this 10 years ago. I spose we all have.

Meredith: hah absolutely. That’s really good. And there's definitely that tendency as a child/twenty-something to feel completely alone and on a raft and not knowing where you're going.

Emily: Definitely.

Meredith: And then you can only hope your raft will bump into some other rafts on that vast ocean

Emily: HEARD THAT

Meredith: Also I read that this structure is called Bildungsroman.

Meaning the protagonist goes through life phases in different locations.

So her childhood is spent in the terrible Gateshead.

Then tween years at Lowood and maturing twenty-something (i.e. 18 in the 1800s) at Thornfield.

I'M EXCITED TO SEE WHAT'S NEXT

Emily: ME TOO!

Meredith: A Bildungsroman tells about the growing up or coming of age of a sensitive person who is looking for answers and experience. -Wiki

Emily: LOLLZ

Meredith: I’m bildungsromaning right now

hahfdklaha

Emily: I’m gonna get bildungsroman tatted on my back

in gothic letters

Meredith: yessssssss

Emily: or my abs

above "ALT LYFE"

in gothic letters.